From: Luke Kanies Date: 21:03 on 17 Aug 2007 Subject: Rubygems require perl? I hate gems, but stupid Rails really wants to use them. Not just that, but a really recent version. I hate ports, but I've got a Mac and it doesn't have real package management. I have an older version of rubygems installed with ports, and I need to upgrade. So: luke@phage(1) $ sudo port upgrade rb-rubygems ---> Fetching perl5.8 ---> Attempting to fetch perl-5.8.8.tar.bz2 from http://www.cpan.org/ src/5.0/ ^C Uh, WTF? I don't know who to specifically hate, but there's plenty there all right. -- To be pleased with one's limits is a wretched state. -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe --------------------------------------------------------------------- Luke Kanies | http://reductivelabs.com | http://madstop.com
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 02:14 on 18 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? * Luke Kanies <luke@xxxxxxx.xxx> [2007-08-17 22:10]: > luke@phage(1) $ sudo port upgrade rb-rubygems > ---> Fetching perl5.8 > ---> Attempting to fetch perl-5.8.8.tar.bz2 from http://www.cpan.org/src/5.0/ > ^C > > Uh, WTF? > > I don't know who to specifically hate, but there's plenty there > all right. Fairly simple dependency chain: rb-rubygems requires autoconf to build which requires perl5.8 to run. The latter seems reasonable, the former odd. Regards,
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 20:37 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? Luke Kanies wrote: > I hate gems, but stupid Rails really wants to use them. Not just that, > but a really recent version. > > I hate ports, but I've got a Mac and it doesn't have real package > management. > > I have an older version of rubygems installed with ports, and I need to > upgrade. > > So: > > luke@phage(1) $ sudo port upgrade rb-rubygems > ---> Fetching perl5.8 > ---> Attempting to fetch perl-5.8.8.tar.bz2 from > http://www.cpan.org/src/5.0/ > ^C > > Uh, WTF? > > I don't know who to specifically hate, but there's plenty there all right. Hate ports. It doesn't explain what dependencies its going to install or even warn you about them. This is inexcusable as all they have to do is take a look at dpkg or fink and copy the interface. Their dependency handling is really miserable. Try uninstalling a deactivated version of a package when something else depends on the active version. It won't let you. You have to force it. Any system where "--force" is the normal mode of operations is hateful.
From: Timothy Knox Date: 20:45 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? Somewhere on Shadow Earth, at Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 12:37:15PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: > Hate ports. It doesn't explain what dependencies its going to install or even > warn you about them. This is inexcusable as all they have to do is take a > look at dpkg or fink and copy the interface. Hmm. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought fink/dpkg were a clone of Debian's package management, which (again, if I recall correctly) was in turn a copy of FreeBSD's ports collection, which DarwinPorts is a more direct implementation of. So what hatefulness did fink/dpkg/apt-get eliminate that going back to the original ports collection reintroduced? And I am serious in asking, as I am a FreeBSD user myself, and hate RPMs (though that is another subject/rant). What hatefulness am I putting up with that the Debian folks have eliminated? Thanks. :-)
From: Michael G Schwern Date: 20:55 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? Timothy Knox wrote: > Somewhere on Shadow Earth, at Mon, Aug 20, 2007 at 12:37:15PM -0700, Michael G Schwern wrote: >> Hate ports. It doesn't explain what dependencies its going to install or even >> warn you about them. This is inexcusable as all they have to do is take a >> look at dpkg or fink and copy the interface. > > Hmm. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought fink/dpkg were a clone of Debian's package > management, which (again, if I recall correctly) was in turn a copy of FreeBSD's > ports collection, which DarwinPorts is a more direct implementation of. dpkg started back in 1993. FreeBSD "port make macros" started in 1994. I doubt dpkg is a clone of ports. If dpkg is a clone of BSD ports it happened so far back in history that all that's left in common is the basic ideas. The interfaces are now very different. Its like saying the eagle and the chicken both came from dinosaurs so let's roast us an eagle. And if DarwinPorts is a faithful reimplementation of FreeBSD ports I have no idea how they've put up with it's crappy dependency interface for so long without fixing it. Then again, people still use rpm and think its the cat's pajamas. Debian spoils me so.
From: Peter da Silva Date: 21:57 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? On 20-Aug-2007, at 14:55, Michael G Schwern wrote: > dpkg started back in 1993. FreeBSD "port make macros" started in > 1994. I > doubt dpkg is a clone of ports. Debian didn't include dependency handling at all, ports was the first package system to do that and all the rest added it on later in a layer above the actual packaging system. Without that it won't do anything more than tell you you need to install something... it won't tell you where to get it and in many cases it won't even tell you the name of the package it wants. With ports you get the name of every package that's available in the system, the names of ALL the packages each depends on, and you don't even need access to the repository... it will go out to the original site on the net where the original software was distributed from if you can't get to a FreeBSD mirror... the ports tree on your computer has everything it needs to go from the original third-party distro to the installed package configured for FreeBSD. If you can't get that information out of DarwinPorts, then it's not a faithful reimplementation of the FreeBSD port system. But if you'd prefer a debian-based approach, there's always fink. Personally, I think all package management systems are hateful, it's just that sometimes they're the least hateful option.
From: A. Pagaltzis Date: 21:58 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? * Michael G Schwern <schwern@xxxxx.xxx> [2007-08-20 22:00]: > dpkg started back in 1993. FreeBSD "port make macros" started > in 1994. I doubt dpkg is a clone of ports. dpkg != APT APT was publically released in 1999, assuming that 30 secs with Google didn't get this wrong. But I remember that when I took my very first look at Debian, APT was not part of the distro, and if it only happened in '99 that would roughly fit the bill. Regards,
From: Jeremy Stephens Date: 20:47 on 20 Aug 2007 Subject: Re: Rubygems require perl? Luke Kanies wrote: > I hate ports, but I've got a Mac and it doesn't have real package > management. Just install it by hand. Whenever I try to install rubygems via some package manager (ports on mac or apt on linux), somehow it always gets screwed up one way or another.
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